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Berberine, A Supplement With Some Teeth

Adachi said:
Not exactly.

My first positive encounter with low carb was from a bit over a decade ago.

Subsequent decreases of carbohydrates over the past decade have been favorable.

I have been approximately carnivore for about 5 years.

The current iteration of yogurt plus ground basically started in the January , and adding in my current training basically started in the spring.

I have long had issues that pivot on insulin, and so this info about berberine is particularly of interest to me.
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One lb. beef, 1 cup low carb yogurt, 5 or more days a week since mid March ?
I'd expect you to be down 40+ by now.
Maybe I'm hitting the crack pipe.
 
Don Fairbanks said:
One lb. beef, 1 cup low carb yogurt, 5 or more days a week since mid March ?
I'd expect you to be down 40+ by now.
Maybe I'm hitting the crack pipe.
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my relationship with fat is lifelong and hard-fought. at this point, I'll give a hat tip to @Anna C for suggesting the book: The Secret Life of Fat. Those who imagine that adipose is quite merely, and only, an energy-in-energy-out calculation are sorely mistaken.

That correlated relationship is unbreakable. but there are many variations on the theme.

The adipose tissue is alive, and it decides how much energy comes in and how much energy goes out, based on biochemical signaling.

what I am not: a bomb calorimeter.

Hence, reinforcing that berberine is particularly interesting to me.
if I can reduce signaling to adipose to retain mass, at this point, I'll do it.
I'm already assembling other methods of encouraging my adipose to liberate energy.

I'll add this one in, and see what happens.
 
Adachi said:
my relationship with fat is lifelong and hard-fought. at this point, I'll give a hat tip to @Anna C for suggesting the book: The Secret Life of Fat. Those who imagine that adipose is quite merely, and only, an energy-in-energy-out calculation are sorely mistaken.

That correlated relationship is unbreakable. but there are many variations on the theme.

The adipose tissue is alive, and it decides how much energy comes in and how much energy goes out, based on biochemical signaling.

what I am not: a bomb calorimeter.

Hence, reinforcing that berberine is particularly interesting to me.
if I can reduce signaling to adipose to retain mass, at this point, I'll do it.
I'm already assembling other methods of encouraging my adipose to liberate energy.

I'll add this one in, and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Honest question. If you are already eating carnivore/ultra low carb/keto, how do you expect berberine to help?
 
John K said:
Honest question. If you are already eating carnivore/ultra low carb/keto, how do you expect berberine to help?
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so - there are a couple of thoughts I have about this.
  • the abstracts I read seem to indicate that Berberine has a net downward effect (however small) on blood sugar, and therefore, indirectly, insulin.
  • for better or worse the insuligenic effect of protein is non-zero.
  • one way to view dietary protein consumption is that they are the Slowest Buring Sugars available. some amino acids can go to gluconeogenesis, there seems to me to be a lack of consensus as to how much - but gluconeogenesis is an ongoing and relatively stable process in a given cohort, as far as I've seen. all other things being equal, the body is regularly producing sugars at some nominal level.
  • given all that - I seem to observe that I am either over-producing or over-receiving signals to retain mass. this seems to have actually been good news for Muscular Hypertrophy reasons. but muscles aren't the only tissues that grow.
I do already think of myself as having a framework of other primary and long-term practices in place to encourage the adipose to liberate energy.
  1. cultivate big hungry muscles.
  2. tap the main 3 energy systems frequently.
  3. Nominally increase tonnages over time.
  4. eat meat, and not much else.
  5. be wary of less satiating foods.
Even with those things in place, on this "cut", since January I went from 265 to 250.
now, that's not nothing. and, arguably, I can understand that my body knows better. I have been watching my muscles, especially quads and shoulders, grow recently. and the relative fat distribution may have to do with relative increases in muscle mass demanding a relatively higher amount of fuel reserves, given the way my energy systems are behaving.

And, so, it is at this point, fighting against a lower bound, that I am entertaining a supplement to see if it moves the current plateau.
it may not.

if it is the case that berberine might help clear some blood sugar and reduce insulin to some degree, I would expect the scale to move, and / or , the waistline to narrow; at least to some degree. maybe not a large degree.
 
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Adachi said:
so - there are a couple of thoughts I have about this.
  • the abstracts I read seem to indicate that Berberine has a net downward effect (however small) on blood sugar, and therefore, indirectly, insulin.
  • for better or worse the insuligenic effect of protein is non-zero.
  • one way to view dietary protein consumption is that they are the Slowest Buring Sugars available. some amino acids can go to gluconeogenesis, there seems to me to be a lack of consensus as to how much - but gluconeogenesis is an ongoing and relatively stable process in a given cohort, as far as I've seen. all other things being equal, the body is regularly producing sugars at some nominal level.
  • given all that - I seem to observe that I am either over-producing or over-receiving signals to retain mass. this seems to have actually been good news for Muscular Hypertrophy reasons. but muscles aren't the only tissues that grow.
I do already think of myself as having a framework of other primary and long-term practices in place to encourage the adipose to liberate energy.
  1. cultivate big hungry muscles.
  2. tap the main 3 energy systems frequently.
  3. Nominally increase tonnages over time.
  4. eat meat, and not much else.
  5. be wary of less satiating foods.
Even with those things in place, on this "cut", since January I went from 265 to 250.
now, that's not nothing. and, arguably, I can understand that my body knows better. I have been watching my muscles, especially quads and shoulders, grow recently. and the relative fat distribution may have to do with relative increases in muscle mass demanding a relatively higher amount of fuel reserves, given the way my energy systems are behaving.

And, so, it is at this point, fighting against a lower bound, that I am entertaining a supplement to see if it moves the current plateau.
it may not.

if it is the case that berberine might help clear some blood sugar and reduce insulin to some degree, I would expect the scale to move, and / or , the waistline to narrow; at least to some degree. maybe not a large degree.
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If I understand you correctly... your working hypothesis is that you eat so much protein that your blood sugar/insulin is too high for you to lose weight, and that by taking berberine it will lower the former effecting the latter?
 
John K said:
If I understand you correctly... your working hypothesis is that you eat so much protein that your blood sugar/insulin is too high for you to lose weight, and that by taking berberine it will lower the former effecting the latter?
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Something like that.

Without certain measurements, I'm a little bit agnostic on the locus of causality.
  • protein intake → insulin production
  • native sugar production rates →insulin production
  • Insulin production → highly sensitive receptors
 
Don Fairbanks said:
Maybe I'm hitting the crack pipe.
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Now that is a supplement with some teeth... and claws!
Adachi said:
Without certain measurements
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Any plans on measuring blood glucose to get a baseline and effect measurement? glucose monitors are relatively inexpensive and easy to use.

Although you can probably get an idea of your previous few months from a regular blood panel that looks at a1c.
 
silveraw said:
Now that is a supplement with some teeth... and claws!

Any plans on measuring blood glucose to get a baseline and effect measurement? glucose monitors are relatively inexpensive and easy to use.

Although you can probably get an idea of your previous few months from a regular blood panel that looks at a1c.
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Yup, and fasting insulin, and a dexa or similar. And thyroid panel and dhea to cortisol ratio.
 
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Boris Bachmann said:
Not to be a total d*ck about it, but I'd be curious what you're eating on those other 2 days.
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Now that we have chickens, that lay eggs every day, I usually have eggs with sriracha or just another dish of beef that I'd prepped.

1719959789634.png

I spent a while deviling my eggs, but it's much easier for me to just dab some hot sauce on them.

1719959890161.png

I did once get to have a nice brisket I made myself.
I usually have to wait till I'm at home on the weekend to have enough time to sous vide a nice cut of meat.

1719960076936.png

Sometimes the wife will treat me with a caprese which is mostly cheese, and it's decorated with a few cherry tomatoes and basil.
 
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Kenny Croxdale said:
Good Question

You may gain that weight back.

Consider these analogies...

Strength Training

What happens if some one stop Strength Training?

Does their Strength and Muscle Mass remain the same?

High Blood Pressure

What are on a blood pressure medication and stop taking it?

Does you blood pressure remain within normal limits or does it go back up if you stop taking the medication?


Test It

This is the most effective way to see how it work for you.

With that said, for individual within normal body fat levels and with normal Blood Glucose Level, Berberine may not be as effective as it is for individual with higher body fat percentages and with Elevated Blood Glucose Levels.


Blood Glucose

Actually, it was a Blood Glucose Test.

Elevated Blood Glucose is usually an indication of Elevate Insulin Levels.

However, that isn't necessarily true.

There are specific test that are necessary to measure Insulin.

Also, there is a difference between...

Physiological vs Pathological Insulin Resistance

Dr, Bikman's goes into these differences.

Pathological Insulin Resistance is a chronic health issue.

Pathological Insulin Resistance isn't.
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Blood glucose was 88 mg/dL

(reference range is 70-99)
 
John K said:
Honest question. If you are already eating carnivore/ultra low carb/keto, how do you expect berberine to help?
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about this, too.

It's been a while since I've been swimming in this literature, but waking glucose/fasted insulin blood levels are correlated with hba1c more than anything else, IIRC(please correct me if I'm wrong).

A common issue with people going keto for weight loss is that their hba1c doesn't change or changes so slowly it may as well not be, and this can fight progress with weight management.

Dr Rhonda Patrick, before she went full broccoli sprout fanatic would say, one way you can lower hba1c is by combining both keto AND longer duration fasts regularly. Eg, don't eat 1+ day a week while being keto.

Berberine may have the effect of skipping the fasting and the time to lower blood sugar, and maybe this'll reduce fasting insulin, which is what's required for faster fat loss from keto.

I'd probably not try berberine and driving, @Adachi , before seeing how severely you bonk in the morning if at all after taking it, and consider taking it ~15 minutes prior to your omad for the desired effect.
 
HarryBergers said:
I'd probably not try berberine and driving, @Adachi , before seeing how severely you bonk in the morning if at all after taking it, and consider taking it ~15 minutes prior to your omad for the desired effect.
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I appreciate the thought.
I'm less than a week into taking (1)1500mg capsule in the morning. I'm considering taking it at lunch, instead; before I eat.
And, as far as my perceived energy levels, and ability to focus throughout the day, it's still the same as before I started taking it.
Haven't had any trouble driving yet.
 
Adachi said:
Now that we have chickens, that lay eggs every day, I usually have eggs with sriracha or just another dish of beef that I'd prepped.

View attachment 25384

I spent a while deviling my eggs, but it's much easier for me to just dab some hot sauce on them.

View attachment 25385

I did once get to have a nice brisket I made myself.
I usually have to wait till I'm at home on the weekend to have enough time to sous vide a nice cut of meat.

View attachment 25386

Sometimes the wife will treat me with a caprese which is mostly cheese, and it's decorated with a few cherry tomatoes and basil.
Click to expand...


What do you eat for vegetables?
 
Mine arrived today.

Since my glucose is normal, not expecting anything dramatic.

I'll probably start with a single capsule, 1/day, tomorrow with morning latte.
 
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