Carb cycling for powerlifting/strength training

[metaldrummer]

Have any of you done it? I've just recently been trying to limit my carbs a bit because I sort of peaked (strength and bodyweight) and was getting too fat. lol I'm not sure if I'm going to low tho... For the most part I've been sticking to 120 or under, at least from food sources. I do still drink daily unfortunately. lol

So I guess I'm wondering...

1. Is 120 grams or under from food too low for powerlifting/strength training? (My weight is about 177-180 rn.)

2. What is your experience with carbs and training and have you tried carb cycling or other methods that were helpful in not acquiring too much bodyfat? lol

 

[Halfakneecap]

I’m not a power lifter but my gym has been taken over by powerlifters, platforms, deadlift loaders, monolifts etc. They don’t look like they eat with any sort of carb or calorie reduction/restriction at all. The ladies quads are twice as big as mine ( 5’9 x 100kg ).

Drinking daily can’t be good for progress in any way imho

After a serious knee injury, I “bulked”, while doing 5/3/1 and ate a tonne of food daily. Strongest I’ve ever been and re built my quads from basically a bone, to decent. Got chubby around a year in though. It was worth it at the time.

 

[Antti]

I've never noticed an effect from carbs on my powerlifting training. I've done well on periods with zero carbs and fasting and I've done well when I've been eating lots of carbs.

Some people say they feel an effect. I don't doubt them. I recommend you try it yourself. Be honest with yourself, whether there is a repeatable effect or not.

I'm sure prolonged periods of dieting and getting to very low bodyfat will have an effect but that is another case.

 

[metaldrummer]

I’m not a power lifter but my gym has been taken over by powerlifters, platforms, deadlift loaders, monolifts etc. They don’t look like they eat with any sort of carb or calorie reduction/restriction at all. The ladies quads are twice as big as mine ( 5’9 x 100kg ).

Drinking daily can’t be good for progress in any way imho

After a serious knee injury, I “bulked”, while doing 5/3/1 and ate a tonne of food daily. Strongest I’ve ever been and re built my quads from basically a bone, to decent. Got chubby around a year in though. It was worth it at the time.

So did you dial the carbs back a bit after the year in or didn't care?

And yeah I know I'd probably lose body fat if I quit drinking, but it's not something I'm currently trying to do. I've drank for probably over half my life at this point so it's just one of those things. I have cut back tho. I used to drink so much. Lol

 

[LukeV]

So did you dial the carbs back a bit after the year in or didn't care?

And yeah I know I'd probably lose body fat if I quit drinking, but it's not something I'm currently trying to do. I've drank for probably over half my life at this point so it's just one of those things. I have cut back tho. I used to drink so much. Lol

I've been a heavy drinker for most of my adult life. Not uncontrollably but heavy nonetheless. It's worth 5kg to me - the amount I lose quickly when I give up, as I have at various points in my life, once for four years. I like drinking and over time I've learned to focus on avoiding hangovers rather than not drinking.

BTW I'm regularly on a low carb diet and in ketosis almost as often and it does effect my lifting. I'm definitely not as strong. I have no explanation for this other than it is possible my low carb periods are also lower calorie periods as I don't feel as hungry so perhaps it's just energy availability.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I've just recently been trying to limit my carbs a bit because I sort of peaked and was getting too fat.

Calories In, Calories Out

Losing body fat/weight is primarily being in a calorie deficit.

For individual who are Insulin Resistant, decreasing carbohydrate should be considered.

Large Waistline

A large waistline is an indication that an individual is Insulin Resistant.

Individuals who increase their waistline when gaining weight are Insulin Resistant.

Insulin Resistance lead to greater increases in body fat on a High Carbohydrate Diet.

Insulin Resistant individuals who decrease their carbohydrates lose weight, providing aren't in a Calorie Surplus.

Is 120 grams or under from food too low for powerlifting/strength training?

Strength Training

This has been covered before on this forum.

Let's go over it once more.

The Phosphagen Energy System

Strength Training (Maximum Strength, Power and Speed) primarily utilize ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate), the Phosphate Energy System.

The Repetition are low in these types of Strength Training.

ATP is expended in around 10-15 seconds.

Thus, individuals on a High Carbohydrate Western or Ketogenic Diet (who have adapted to it) will preform the same.

Information from this article addresses the fact that individual who are a Ultra Low Carbohydrate Diet, such Keto perform just as well as individuals on a High Carbohydrate. That because ATP is the primary energy source, not glucose (carbohydrates) nor ketones (fats)

Should You Follow the Ketogenic Diet While Strength Training? | BarBend

When Keto Might Work for Strength Athletes

Dr. Mike T. Nelson

“If we look at Olympic lifting and powerlifting, it’s extremely explosive power, the duration of time is concise, so it’s primarily the ATP-CP energy system. So, ketosis in those athletes may be OK because they’re typically doing brief high output with pretty long rest periods.”

Dr. Mike Israetel

...Where volume is very low, and you have a very high-intensity effort as opposed to high volume,” says Dr. Mike Israetel, an assistant professor of nutrition, exercise science, and public health at Temple University and co-founder of fitness company Renaissance Periodization. “The higher the total volume of work you perform in training, the more you’re going to rely on glycogen and carbohydrate to potentiate that performance. In strength sports, because the work is typically not as high in duration, people can get away with lower carbs in general."

The Final Word

Keto won’t hurt strength athletes who only pump out one to three reps per set, and have long rest periods in between.

The Take Home Message

A Low Carbohydrate such as 120 grams per day is not going to affect Strength Training providing you are consuming enough calories and protein.

Nutrition The ketogenic diet + S&S combination, Post 5

Nutrition - The ketogenic diet + S&S combination

Hi guys! Just bought the Simple & Sinister book today and read through most of it. Really impressed with the rationale behind the program structure. I have been training with Kettlebells for the past couple months now and have been seeing a decent increase in strength. I intend to start the...

www.strongfirst.com

Post 5 provide more information for individual a Low Carbohydrate Diet or a Ketogenic Diet.

 

[silveraw]

Is 120 grams or under from food too low for powerlifting/strength training? (My weight is about 177-180 rn.)

2. What is your experience with carbs and training and have you tried carb cycling or other methods that were helpful in not acquiring too much bodyfat? lol

I don’t think carbs have any bearing on it really. But protein certainly does. If I hit protein goals regularly it’s like a switch comes on and progress starts rolling.

 

[metaldrummer]

I don’t think carbs have any bearing on it really. But protein certainly does. If I hit protein goals regularly it’s like a switch comes on and progress starts rolling.

Really? I definitely feel a lack of energy if I go TOO low carb. Either way, I'm keeping protein the same which I think last time I calculated was around 130-140 grams per day and of course plenty of healthy fats.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I never used to closely monitor carb intake, always assuming I was getting more than enough, but found one summer that I was low on energy, losing weight, and after long training sessions my sweat would smell of ammonia. I realized that I was low on carbs.

I fixed all of this pretty simply (having the diet dialed in to begin with with three squares a day, two protein shakes, snacks as needed, makes adjustments easier) - Gatorade and/or a light snack before/during workouts, eating more carbs with breakfast.

 

[silveraw]

Really? I definitely feel a lack of energy if I go TOO low carb. Either way, I'm keeping protein the same which I think last time I calculated was around 130-140 grams per day and of course plenty of healthy fats.

Sorry should have specified. In terms of lifting.

When I go full keto I feel dumb as a box of rocks.

I find it is far easier to lose weight eating lots of fiber which entails eating lots of carbs. I think it’s an individual thing to some extent. But even health wise hitting 30g of fiber a day is pretty important.

 

[Steve Freides]

NHE, Natural Hormonal Enhancement, is a good read on this topic, IMHO.

-S-

 

[watchnerd]

If I don't have enough carbs, my weightlifting performs suuuuucks.

My ballistics suffer more than my grinds.

 

[watchnerd]

Sorry should have specified. In terms of lifting.

When I go full keto I feel dumb as a box of rocks.

I find it is far easier to lose weight eating lots of fiber which entails eating lots of carbs. I think it’s an individual thing to some extent. But even health wise hitting 30g of fiber a day is pretty important.

I know a "hybrid athlete" who, in order to go ultra low carb (and thus doesn't get enough fiber) gives himself daily shower hose power enemas.

 

[HarryBergers]

Have any of you done it? I've just recently been trying to limit my carbs a bit because I sort of peaked (strength and bodyweight) and was getting too fat. lol I'm not sure if I'm going to low tho... For the most part I've been sticking to 120 or under, at least from food sources. I do still drink daily unfortunately. lol

So I guess I'm wondering...

1. Is 120 grams or under from food too low for powerlifting/strength training? (My weight is about 177-180 rn.)

2. What is your experience with carbs and training and have you tried carb cycling or other methods that were helpful in not acquiring too much bodyfat? lol

If I eat carbs daily for strength training I always had gained weight that wasn't wanted.

If I do enough work during the week, I'll eat some on the weekend, this is strategically to reduce cravings during the week, but I don't go overboard or I'll be too bloated during the next week.

Geoff Neupert's dietary recommendations are great as long as you don't over shoot the calories.

I've been carb cycling weekends only for a few months and am steadily losing 2-3# a week.

During the week I only eat my one meal a day after training which is usually after work.

 

[Steve Freides]

I know a "hybrid athlete" who, in order to go ultra low carb …

Ew, gross.

-S-

 

[silveraw]

I know a "hybrid athlete" who, in order to go ultra low carb (and thus doesn't get enough fiber) gives himself daily shower hose power enemas.

Huh that’s a choice for sure. By all means you should be cleaning that area in the shower…
But there are important benefits from fiber besides pooping. Fermentation and gut flora seem to be important.
Enemas kinda do the opposite

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

When I go full keto I feel dumb as a box of rocks.

Keto Adapted

As I am sure you know, it takes around three (3) days to initially become Keto Adapted.

The longer an individual on the Ketogenic Diet, the greater the Keto Adaptation.

During those three (3) days mental clarity and low energy can be an issue.

Usually after three (3) days everything improves.

I find it is far easier to lose weight eating lots of fiber which entails eating lots of carbs.

Fibrous Foods Are Low Carb

Fibrous Foods are Vegetables that are Low in Carbohydrate.

It is pretty hard to eat lot of carbohydrates when consuming High Fiber Foods.

health wise hitting 30g of fiber a day is pretty important.

Misinformation

Dr. Paul Mason's research found that the recommendation of consuming 30 gram of fiber is based extrapolated information that was incorrectly extrapolated.

The graph below was part of his research presentation.



30 Gram of Fiber

That is an enormous amount of fiber to consume in a day.

Fibrous Vegetable Examples

Broccoli

Each cup (90 g) of raw broccoli provides 2.2 g of fiber

Broccoli 101: Nutrition Facts and Health Benefits

Broccoli is a popular vegetable that is high in many nutrients, including fiber and vitamin C. Broccoli may lower the risk of cancer and heart disease.

www.healthline.com

Base on that information, an individual would need to consume 13 plus cups of Broccoli in a day.

Cauliflower

The USDA provides the following nutrition information for one cup of raw chopped cauliflower: 2.1 grams

Cauliflower Nutrition Facts and Health Benefits

One cup of cauliflower is 27 calories and has about 5.3g of carbs and 2.1g of protein and is an excellent source of vitamin C and magnesium.

www.verywellfit.com

Base on that information, an individual would need to consume 14 plus cups of Cauliflower in a day.

Pinto Beans

Every 1/2-cup serving of pinto beans also provides 8 g of dietary fiber

Are Pinto Beans Good for You? Here's What a Dietitian Has to Say

Pinto beans are a type of legume packed full of nutrition. Read about their health benefits, potential drawbacks, and recipes to try.

www.eatingwell.com

Base on that information, an individual would need to consume 7.5 plus cups of Pinto Bean in a day.

Take Home Message

Regardless of which Fibrous Vegetable chosen, an individual's chewing time will rival a cow's endless chewing time.

Myths and Truths About Fiber
Chris Kresser, M.S.

Myths and Truths About Fiber - Chris Kresser

For decades, fiber has been touted as an essential component of a healthy diet, yet many of these health claims have not been proven by research.

chriskresser.com

...Many studies have demonstrated that excess intake of fiber may actually be harmful, particularly for gut health. (Mason touched on this in his presentation, as well.)

Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms (nih.gov)

This study has confirmed that the previous strongly-held belief that the application of dietary fiber to help constipation is but a myth.

Whilst it is often stated in physiology textbooks that bulking agents improve peristalsis, there is no proof of this in practice nor experimentally.

Summary

Fiber has some health benefits, such gut health.

However, consuming 30 grams a day isn't necessary.

It is hard to consume that much fiber in a day; unless your a cow.

 

[watchnerd]

Ew, gross.

-S-

Huh that’s a choice for sure. By all means you should be cleaning that area in the shower…
But there are important benefits from fiber besides pooping. Fermentation and gut flora seem to be important.
Enemas kinda do the opposite

Yeah, I told him it wasn’t healthy.

But then he went on about Kellogg

 

[North Coast Miller]

Have any of you done it? I've just recently been trying to limit my carbs a bit because I sort of peaked (strength and bodyweight) and was getting too fat. lol I'm not sure if I'm going to low tho... For the most part I've been sticking to 120 or under, at least from food sources. I do still drink daily unfortunately. lol

So I guess I'm wondering...

1. Is 120 grams or under from food too low for powerlifting/strength training? (My weight is about 177-180 rn.)

2. What is your experience with carbs and training and have you tried carb cycling or other methods that were helpful in not acquiring too much bodyfat? lol

I get a much faster and linear response in body comp by cutting fats.

I start with condiment fats and work into portion control with higher fat foods.

Body comp is a function of CICO.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I know a "hybrid athlete" who, in order to go ultra low carb (and thus doesn't get enough fiber) gives himself daily shower hose power enemas.

...
There are bidet adapters that do that a lot more civilized. I retired the one I bought at the start of the pandemic, but it was a beast. Minding your business after a mercy flush and the tank finishes filling, the thing could practically stand you up, no shower hose needed.