metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
How many days did you give yourself from the last training session? I've tested 1 rep maxes before obviously, but I've never tried to do all 3 of the big lifts the same day.
Barbell Question for those who've done mock meets in teh gymz.
- Thread starter metaldrummer
- Start date
As a competitor, I take different amount of rests for each life. I try to stop deadlifting heavy 12 days out, fewer days for SQ, yet fewer days for BP. I try to get some light days between the last heavy days and the meet.
You might try training all three lifts in order sometime, keeping the order the same but making one lift heavy and the other two light. I like this idea but often don't have time for it, so I try to have a SQ + BP day and a BP + DL day at the least.
-S-
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
By "days of rest" you mean completely off w. no training, right? Then probably 3.
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
Yep... I was thinking 3 or max 4 day. Just wanted to see other's opinions. Also I forgot, if anyone has any advice as far as warm up and time between lifts. I'm not taking this too seriously (I taking my lifting seriously obviously), but I'd like to make it similar to an actual meet just for fun, and in case I ever decide to enter a comp.
I 100% agree with @Boris Bachmann and @Antti buuuuuuuuut...
... when I do a "mock meet" to test my 1RMs before a cycle, I usually just do it on a normal training day. I might go easy the previous training day but ... Not really.
I swear there's a purpose.
If I test my maxes during a regular training week, with everything else going on, I will get a lower max than if I had peaked for a meet. BUT that lower max "works" better for me with how I program.
If I were to peak, decrease running volume, and etc. for a regular meet, my max may not be that "helpful" for planning out a cycle and may result in planned weights that are "too big" when all the other stressors are in play.
So, do it tomorrow you @$&&%!
... when I do a "mock meet" to test my 1RMs before a cycle, I usually just do it on a normal training day. I might go easy the previous training day but ... Not really.
I swear there's a purpose.
If I test my maxes during a regular training week, with everything else going on, I will get a lower max than if I had peaked for a meet. BUT that lower max "works" better for me with how I program.
If I were to peak, decrease running volume, and etc. for a regular meet, my max may not be that "helpful" for planning out a cycle and may result in planned weights that are "too big" when all the other stressors are in play.
So, do it tomorrow you @$&&%!
So, two possibilities and I have done both. Simple 1 RM for a single lift.. no prep just do it as scheduled in your training. For a true mock meet (and a real meet when I compete) I do the following
- 3 weeks out – Lifter attempts the planned 3rd attempt at the meet / max attempt
- 2 weeks out – Lifter works up to planned 2nd attempt at the meet
- 1 week out – Lifter works up to planned 1st attempt (opener) at the meet
- 0 weeks out – Week of meet, lifter makes zero attempts until day of meet
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
With single lift gym PRs, I've never really had extra rest. I've typically always done a new PR. Would I have done better with a longer rest? I doubt it. Three lifts with three attempts is a somewhat different thing.
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
I gotta admit, I sort of like that philosophy. Being able to hit a big max no matter where you are in your training. I don't know how well that pans out for intermediate raw lifters tho.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
This is essentially what I used to do - work up to openers for all three lifts a week to 10 days out. On the lead up week, it's just warming up on Monday or Tuesday, then chilling out the rest of the week with maybe light stretching on Wednesday/Thursday.
Halfakneecap
Level 6 Valued Member
Eating gummy bears and napping between lifts? Damn, I think I could naturally be really good at that part of powerlifting. Can’t lift very heavy though, but the gummy bear and nap, my technique is impeccable.
I'd say it depends on what you want out of it.
If you want the meet practice, it doesn't matter. Just do what you can do that day. That's part of what you need to practice anyway -- figuring out what you're likely capable of that day based on the knowledge at hand, and then factor in how your warm-ups feel, to select your opening attempt and subsequent attempts.
If you want the most accurate measure of your current 1RM, I'd argue that a mock meet isn't the best way to get that.
Also keep in mind that when you rest for several days, you're getting fresher, but you're not getting stronger. And you're losing valuable training time, so it should be for a good purpose.
If you want the meet practice, it doesn't matter. Just do what you can do that day. That's part of what you need to practice anyway -- figuring out what you're likely capable of that day based on the knowledge at hand, and then factor in how your warm-ups feel, to select your opening attempt and subsequent attempts.
If you want the most accurate measure of your current 1RM, I'd argue that a mock meet isn't the best way to get that.
Also keep in mind that when you rest for several days, you're getting fresher, but you're not getting stronger. And you're losing valuable training time, so it should be for a good purpose.
metaldrummer
Level 6 Valued Member
Idk, some of the times I've taken a few days off I was able to come back with PR's in a lift. Maybe it's not because I was technically stronger, but if it's because I'm more recovered then that's fine with me. I've been going hard for over a year and right now I'd like to see if all of my hard work has paid off. I got the whole rest of my life to keep training so that's not really something I'm worried about. Lol
Agreed. Very primal. Louie used to tell them on Wednesday they were competing Saturday. WildI gotta admit, I sort of like that philosophy. Being able to hit a big max no matter where you are in your training. I don't know how well that pans out for intermediate raw lifters tho.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
In the last days before a meet (or PR attempt), you can't really get stronger but you could get a lot weaker! Imho, if you're going to err, err on the side of recovery.
There's wisdom in what you're saying. One's best is, by definition, not something you can do day in, day out. For me, one of the fun things about competition prep is the week before, when I'm doing very little lifting and realizing just how good I've done over the preceding weeks and months. You could even test yourself by testing each lift on a different day - not the same as a meet, but if you aren't preparing for a meet, who cares?
From my own training, I'm planning on putting my best lift, my deadlift, on the back burner for a few weeks to focus on my SQ and my BP. My DL might go down as a result, or it might not, but things like this are part of the same-but-different that can keep one training effectively for a lifetime.
JMO, YMMV.
-S-
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Periodization Training
Ironically, a well written/executed Periodization Training Cycle essentially involves setting Personal Records.
Let's break it down,
Warm Up Training Plan
A Periodization Training Cycle equates to a Warm Up for the Final Week in a Training Program. That means an individual's objective is to set a New Personal Record in a Movement; either for a 1 Repetition Max or for Repetitions (performing a Movement for more Repetition than a Previous Best).
Each Week of the Periodization Training is a Warm Up for the following week. With that in mind let's see how that works in a 4 Week Training Cycle.
1) Week 1: This is the beginning of a New Periodization Training Cycle that starts of with something light and easy.
Week 1: Follows a prior Periodization Training Cycle that was pushed near or to the limit into OverReaching; mildly OverTrained.
The lighter loads promote Active Recovery.
Think of Week 1 as the "First Warm Up Set".
Week 2: The Load in the Training Exercise is increases above the First Week.
Think of Week 2 as the "Second Warm Up Set".
Week 3: The Load in the Training Exercise is increased above the Second Week.
Think of this as the "Third Warm Up Set".
Week 4: This is the Final Periodization Training Cycle Week in that an individual has "Warmed Up" for in the Previous "Warm Up Weeks".
This week is where you determine a New 1 Repetition Max or Repetition Max, where a liter sets a New Personal Rep Record in a Movement.,
Opening Attempts
In Meet Competition, one of the main issues with many lifter is there opener is too high.
They struggle to get their First Attempt, then miss their Second and Third, or...
They miss All Their Attempts.
The Rule in Powerlifting and Olympic Lifting is that if a lifter misses all of their Attempts in one Lift, they are out of the Meet.
Chip McCain
McCain was one of the best in Powerlifting, one of the smartest, as well.
At one point, setting the Deadlift World Record at 362.5 kg/799 lbs at a Body Weight of 90 kg/198 lbs.
Picking An Opening Attempt
McCain's Method of ensuring making a successful First Attempt was this...
McCain Last Warm Up Rep was his Opening Attempt on the Platform.
1980 Worlds Squat Attempt Example
McCain lifted in the 100 kg/220 lb Weight Class.
His Attempts were as follows. All were successful.
1) First Attempt: 317.5 kg/710 lbs
This Attempt was McCain last Warm Attempt, performed on the Platform.
2) Second Attempt: 340 kg/760 lbs
3) Third Attempt: 367.5 kg/810 lbs
This method is very effective.
The overriding issue is that most lifter lack confidence in this approach.
Jon Kuc, 242 lb World Powerlifting Champion
Kuc's approach was similar to McCain's.
Kuc's book,,,
As per Kuc, he rarely make his Third Deadlift Attempt.
What Kuc did was make his Second Attempt his Last (Third Attempt).
Kuc's 1980 World Champion Deadlift Record
These were Kuc's Deadlift Attempts in the 110 kg/242 lb Weight Class at the 1980 Worlds.
1) First Attempt: 350 kg/770 lbs
Kuc's First Attempt secured First Place.
2) Second Attempt: 395 kg/870 lbs
It was a struggle for Kuc, which he made, setting a New World Record.
Take Home On "Periodization Warm Up Weeks"
The purpose of Warm Up Set as a well as "Warm Up Periodization Training Weeks" is to prepare a lifter for the following set or week.
Recovery
The objective of a well written/executed Periodization Training Cycle is to provide adequately stress and then allow time for adaptation; Super Compensation to occur.
Recover is where gain in Strength occur.
Steve provide a great example on this...
Strength Retention
Here is the breakdown of...
The residual effects of each training quality are as follows:
- Aerobic endurance (30+5 days)
- Maximum strength (30+5 days)
- Anaerobic glycolytic endurance (18+4 days)
- Maximum speed (5+3 days)
The Take Home Message
1) Strength Loss is will not occur in a Week or Two of Backing Off; Recovery (gains in Strength will).
2) As per...
3) Steve's Pre-Meet Plan is should be followed.
Maximum Speed/Power Training
As Dietz noted above, "...Based on the residual effects shown above...maximum strength maintain their training effects the longest, while the nervous system, or max speed, have the shortest residuals."
What I have determined is that Maximum Speed/Power Training (as Dietz) noted, a few days prior to a Meet with a Very Limited Sets and Loads, elicits a training that carries over to Powerlifting Meets; another topic for another time.
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I think you guys missed my point. But apparently it was on my side, so I'll try to re-state.
I totally agree with all 3 statements I quoted above.
Of course, the ability to DISPLAY the strength one has built actually goes up when one rests, especially at the right point in a great training cycle. So in that regard, one gets stronger from rest. But taking that to an extreme -- if you do that every week for months on end, do you get stronger? No, you lose training time, and you can't even maintain, much less build new strength. (I know, no one is talking about doing that. But just illustrating my point. )
@metaldrummer, yes, you take days off you come back with PRs in a lift. But for this purpose, is does that meet your underlying purpose? If it does, then certainly, take the number of days off that works best for YOU, and then see what you can do. My point is, if your purpose is to see what your new, best 1RM is, then a "mock meet" isn't the absolute best way to do that. But it IS a decent way to combine seeing what your current max is in meet conditions along with getting some practice at the meet format. So if that is what you're after, then it all makes sense.
@Boris Bachmann, that is so true! As they say you can't win it in those final days (with additional training), but you can lose it (by doing too much). Erring on the side of recovery is best for seeing what you can really do. My point is that there is a cost to that, too, in terms of how the training cycle is supposed to go. If you are truly in meet prep, the cycle should peak your strength at just the right time... for the meet. Taking 3-5 days off to test maxes a little while before that is likely to be disruptive to the cycle. But yeah I agree, it's not a huge loss of strength. Just an somewhat of an opportunity cost in the big picture of when you can be at your best when it counts.
@Kenny Croxdale Yes, a great illustration of the training cycle. So a well-executed cycle shouldn't be disrupted by a random 1RM test or mock meet, do you agree?
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Conserving energy during a meet is supposed to be the hard part of the sport too
You’re a natural!