Kettlebell Volume of AXE vs Q&D

[PTM]

I feel like I’ve always thrived on relatively low volume programming. I can certainly perform AXE sessions as directed, but the volume has been difficult to keep up with (soreness even with lower reps, general fatigue). Do you think there are certain people that are that way and might struggle with the higher volume of AXE and do better with something like Q&D? I know the stimulus and mitochondrial benefits differ between the two programs. Ideally I’d employ both. Could it be a matter of working up to it? Any recommendations?

 

[ShawnM]

Q&D's volume is only low when you start. Once you get going 80-120 reps, even when rolling the dice, isn't uncommon. You could do Q&D twice a week or AXE twice a week, and just do some basic body weight moves twice a week and two days a week of some type of cardio. You could do AXE with just two reps and work well past the 30 minute mark for progress, like 50-60 minutes. Once at 60 minutes for a few weeks, jump up a bell size and repeat.

 

[Luis T. Gonzalez]

I feel like I’ve always thrived on relatively low volume programming. I can certainly perform AXE sessions as directed, but the volume has been difficult to keep up with (soreness even with lower reps, general fatigue). Do you think there are certain people that are that way and might struggle with the higher volume of AXE and do better with something like Q&D? I know the stimulus and mitochondrial benefits differ between the two programs. Ideally I’d employ both. Could it be a matter of working up to it? Any recommendations?

I would say that if you have read the book and are following the program, then "volume" shouldn't really be an issue. You should be listening to your body and stopping when you reach the stop signs. And you should be following the step loading in the book until your body is able to do the work at an RPE 6 before advancing. I would say if you are overly sore or fatigued you probably went too hard too soon and should back off a little, stay there, then move forward a bit.

 

[Bauer]

I feel like I’ve always thrived on relatively low volume programming. I can certainly perform AXE sessions as directed, but the volume has been difficult to keep up with (soreness even with lower reps, general fatigue). Do you think there are certain people that are that way and might struggle with the higher volume of AXE and do better with something like Q&D? I know the stimulus and mitochondrial benefits differ between the two programs. Ideally I’d employ both. Could it be a matter of working up to it? Any recommendations?

Yes, maybe you just need more time to adapt to a given volume via step loading.

At which volume do you start do recover more slowly? Pavel mentions 40 repeats as the point of higher recovery cost. Maybe your personal threshold is lower.

If this is the case, you could try to use a different progression strategy. For example, using 24 minutes as the max duration, and then fading in heavier weights (sets of 2-4 every second set or so).

 

[PTM]

Yes, maybe you just need more time to adapt to a given volume via step loading.

At which volume do you start do recover more slowly? Pavel mentions 40 repeats as the point of higher recovery cost. Maybe your personal threshold is lower.

If this is the case, you could try to use a different progression strategy. For example, using 24 minutes as the max duration, and then fading in heavier weights (sets of 2-4 every second set or so).

That’s the crazy thing. Early on I did a session of 20 sets of 4, seemed to obey all the stop signs, and was pretty sore for several days after. It’s not really a new thing, I seem to have a real propensity for getting sore.

 

[Bauer]

That’s the crazy thing. Early on I did a session of 20 sets of 4, seemed to obey all the stop signs, and was pretty sore for several days after. It’s not really a new thing, I seem to have a real propensity for getting sore.

That's interesting.

Back when I started with S&S I could not predict how I would respond to the same volume. And I have had the same issue with autoregulated training: Feeling good during the session and then not recovering well.

My main adjustment was to use the Delta-20 principle instead of flat steps. (Which you should know well from S&S.)

So I would suggest that you try AXE as outlined, but introduce more volume variability. I see two main variants:
* 2 days per week: 1 x100% (veavy), 1 x60-80% (medium) of repeats OR reps per repeat Example: Heavy: 20x6, Medium: 16x6 OR 20x4
* 3 days per week (HLM): 1 sesion 100% (heavy), 1x light (40-50% of heavy), 1x medium (60-80% of heavy).

You could then repeat this type of week until your RPE on your heavy session drops as outlined in AXE. You might then add a week or two of regular step loading (all sessions with the same volume) or just go for a new autoregulated maximum repeat session.

When you do it this way, you will gradually adapt to the volume and will still be able to progress, IMO.

 

[Steve Freides]

I feel like I’ve always thrived on relatively low volume programming. I can certainly perform AXE sessions as directed, but the volume has been difficult to keep up with (soreness even with lower reps, general fatigue). Do you think there are certain people that are that way and might struggle with the higher volume of AXE and do better with something like Q&D? I know the stimulus and mitochondrial benefits differ between the two programs. Ideally I’d employ both. Could it be a matter of working up to it? Any recommendations?

If you're interested in addressing your weaknesses, you might consider staying with AXE and trying to find a way through your difficulties. Maybe varying the volume rather than a stricter interpretation of a step cycle, maybe a "starting over" kind of cycling wherein, once you feel like you're having difficulty, you cut way back on volume, weight, or both and ramp up again.

As a personal example, I'm recovering from a PL competition and had already cut back on my swings as part of my taper for the meet. I'd been doing 40 kg x 4 one-hand swing but yesterday I did 32 kg x 5 one-handed swings and stopped after 10 minutes/sets. There's nothing wrong with stepping back. It's a solid strategy to eventually return to where you were and then go beyond.

-S-